Your Collective - Mind, Body & Spiritual Balance
Your Collective is a space where we explore the ways in which we can calm and quiet the mind, so that we can tune into and listen to our bodies and ultimately listen to the whisper of what our soul desires. How do we connect the trifecta so that they can work together in harmony and unity?
Your Collective - Mind, Body & Spiritual Balance
Anchoring the Future: Reflections on Fatherhood and Forging Family Pathways
Michael and I take a seat to unravel his experiences of growing up in a world without a stable home, and how this shaped his determination to anchor our children with the consistency he yearned for. This episode isn't just about the past; it's a beacon for all fathers striving to carve out a fulfilling future for their families. We don't shy away from discussing the sacrifices that come with the territory of parenting, nor do we gloss over the challenge of balancing our personal dreams with the realities of raising a family under the watchful eyes of those closest to us.
The tapestry of family life is embroidered with the threads of relationships spanning generations – a theme poignantly discussed as Michael and I reflect on the influence of grandparents and the wisdom they impart. But wisdom comes at a price, and we question if Western society truly supports the family structure as it should, especially when viewed through the lens of the legal system during family disputes. The core of our conversation remains fixed on the well-being of our children and the lengths we'll go to ensure they grow up in an environment that nurtures their potential.
Stepping into the broader scope of societal shifts, we examine the changing tides of gender norms and identity, contemplating the impact these have on family dynamics and personal growth. The discussion takes a turn into the realm of faith and parenting, where we share our own philosophies – living with kindness and positivity while recognizing that, despite diverse paths, we are all journeying towards a shared destination. Tune in as Michael and I navigate these thought-provoking waters, offering a candid and meaningful exploration of what it means to be a parent in today's complex world.
Thank you so much, Michael, for joining me today as a guest on your Collective. I really appreciate your presence here today to share a little bit about who you are and your journey to this point in your life. Who are not aware, Michael is my joint partner in parenting to, as I've said, four amazing human beings. This is the other half of those four amazing human beings. So, Michael, please thank you for coming. Introduce yourself. Please tell us a little bit about where you grew up and who you are, and where you are in life and how you got here.
Michael Hume:Yeah, no problem, my pleasure, Happy to be here. Yeah, the journey has been a steady one with the, with the children. It's definitely a blessing and so happy to be along this journey with you. Where did I grow up? Was that the question? Where, how did I get here? That's, that's quite an. It's quite an opening, quite an opening line, but an opening volley there, a lot of breath.
Sherisse Alexander:Well, I guess, what I'm asking is you know, I firmly believe that we're a product of our environment. So a little bit I think of maybe if you've even reflected on it your upbringing and how, and maybe I should have given a little bit more intro to what this particular episode is about. It is as part of my men's series, as we lead up to Father's Day, and as the father of our four amazing children. That's the context here. So your upbringing and how it crafted you into the father that you are today.
Michael Hume:Yeah, sure, I mean my, my upbringing is a little bit scattered. You know, growing up we, we tend to move around a little bit more than the average person, or maybe not. I don't know how many people move around, but you. But I was born in Edmonton. I spent the first couple of years of my life there. At the time my dad worked for the great Canadian broadcasting company CBC, and I think so as part of his journey we moved around a little bit as he cut his teeth in the radio game and the TV game. So after living in Edmonton for a few years, we moved to the great white north of Yellowknife, lived there for a couple of years where my brother was born, and then after that we moved to the city. That rhymes with fun. When we moved to Regina, spent a little more time there.
Sherisse Alexander:Sorry, what rhymes with that? I'm joking, but you should tell us, Regina.
Michael Hume:There we go. Regina. It's the city that rhymes with fun. Come on, everybody knows that.
Sherisse Alexander:Fun for who. Fun for who fun for everybody.
Michael Hume:This is um, yeah, so. So lived in regina for a few years. Um, I think we spent decent chunk of time there until I was sort of uh in my early teen years, and then we ended up my parents ended up splitting up around that time, sort of uh, I think I was 13-ish years old or so, and then ended up moving back to Edmonton with my mother and then in Edmonton we lived a few different spots. We sort of kept on the moving theme, but we weren't moving cities, we were more so just moving houses, moving a bunch of different little spots. And so I guess when you just sort of thinking back to you know, growing up, I think that that was definitely something that stands out to me.
Michael Hume:It's just the movement and the change is something that was part of my formative years and I'm not exactly sure what the impact that might be on me if I had to sort of do the whole psychoanalysis thing. There's maybe some things to tease out of it. But oddly enough, now in my adult years now, you know, since the last house that we lived in together, we've been there for the still in that same spot and have been there for, you know, the longest period of my life actually is sort of Almost 20 years. Almost 20 years, yeah, nearly nearly 20 years in one location, after spending, you know, no more than a couple of years in any one spot. So, yeah, I don't know that's what impact.
Michael Hume:If you're thinking about what impact that has on somebody, yeah, it's a curious thought. I don't really know and maybe it's, maybe it's nothing, but it's funny because I find, you know, I, I, for some time now, even you know, genuinely have a a bit of a yearning for move to, to switch it up. You know to move and I think part of you know I know move and I think part of you know I don't know if this leads into the whole fatherhood, parenthood aspect of things. But you know, as parents, you know we often make a lot of sacrifices for our children and and you know not to say that necessarily stability is a sacrifice, but the the necessity to provide stability to our children is something that sort of underpins some of the choices that I guess you could say I may have made in life.
Sherisse Alexander:Yeah, that would seem like a reasonable and logical conclusion. That would seem like a reasonable and logical conclusion, you know, seeing as my perspective is that we consciously or subconsciously try to give our children the things that we feel like we might not have had or lacked when we were, you know, in those very, very important and formative years. So for you, if you know, you guys moved around a lot, then I could see how being stationary would be an important thing for you, if not for yourself, at least for the kids to have, so that they could feel safe and secure within that experience. So that would make sense.
Michael Hume:Yeah, or at least whether or not there's any truth to it, this sort of sentiment that you know, because oftentimes you know you want to, you feel you're doing something, for you know reason X, and the funny part about it is it's not necessarily always perceived that same way on the other, on the other end, right. So whether or not, um, anyone else craves that stability, that could just be something that you know, maybe I was craving and decided was necessary, but maybe it's not even that necessary. Maybe there's, maybe there's more to be said for moving around than one thinks. Maybe that's, maybe that's the better way to go. Who knows? Who knows? Who really knows in any of this?
Sherisse Alexander:I don't know that there's really a right answer. I think that part of it. Yeah, because the reality is. I think there is something to be said for frequent, because really, the only thing that is constant is change. That's the only thing that we can guarantee. So I would almost venture and say that your frequent movement in your younger years allowed you an ability to be very adaptable and resilient, because you were never in one place for very long. You were there for maybe two, three years at the most, and so you were already primed for that constant. And so many people struggle. We don't like change. Most people don't like it. They like the comfortable, even if it's something they don't like.
Michael Hume:So yeah, I don't know that it's a bad thing. Yeah, no, no, I don't know either. I've not really actually given it this much thought before great actually, now that you're. Now that you mentioned it, I don't think we ever talked about it when we were married so no, no, I don't think, I don't think I've given it as much thought as I just did in the last five minutes oh well, I'm so glad that I could uh you to take a term out of your vocabulary tease that out of you.
Sherisse Alexander:Even though you moved around a lot, I do know that there were, I guess you could say, some foundational pieces, people in your life. So who would you consider to be the most influential person in forming like who you are, at your core?
Michael Hume:Yeah, you know, for me I have real fond memories of my grandfather.
Michael Hume:Definitely, I think that's probably one of the ones that stands out of my mind.
Michael Hume:You know, as, uh, as a young guy, going back to the, going back to the old farm, often for summers, was was one constant thing that, no matter where we were, we kind of always did that and you know that space has always been, uh, one constant in life and spending time out there with him and it's a couple of formative years or formative summers as a youth Definitely, I think, stuck with me, it resonated with me a lot Sort of that's and this is, you know, people of that generation are definitely cut from a different cloth than we see these days and I think anyone who's had the privilege or experience or taken the time to chat with some of those folks there's not a lot of them left these days, but if you were, you know, sort of of our generation and you took the time to, you know, listen to the quote, unquote the elders and sort of really soak in some of the lessons that they had to say there was a lot, you know, they went through some shit and that's definitely one of the people who was influential in my life and resonated with me, and it's the sort of the first one that pops to my mind.
Michael Hume:You know, no disrespect to my immediate parents at all, I think you know, it's just. Yeah, that's just, that's just what sticks out in my mind.
Sherisse Alexander:I don't think there's.
Sherisse Alexander:Again, I mean, it's not necessarily a bad thing.
Sherisse Alexander:If you think about some of the cultures that we see I'm going to say from the East and this is, I think, going to speak to your point a little bit you can see that there's this ideology where when you're young and you're having kids, you know your job as a young parent is to like go out and earn right, support your family.
Sherisse Alexander:And so you often see these family dynamics where you know the young parents are out doing exactly that, but the grandparents are very strongly present in those young lives, being the children, so that they can impart that wisdom that really I don't even think parents are able to give a second thought because you're so busy providing, are able to give a second thought because you're so busy providing. And so I think really what I'm doing is I'm adding, I think I'm agreeing with you that you know those older generations, they have a lot of wisdom that you can't necessarily hear when you're, or even in part, when we're, young parents, and I think there's a lot of value in that type of family dynamic where we can hopefully get to connect with elders and hear what they have to say and really let that soak in.
Michael Hume:Yeah for sure.
Michael Hume:I mean we I think you and I have had this conversation, you know, in the past about the family structure and and that whole concept of you know in the past about the family structure and and that whole concept of, uh, you know generational, um, you know passing on generational knowledge and wisdom, and absolutely, yeah for sure, when you, when you're young and you have that energy, go out there and and you know, make hay while the sun shines, and then when you're older and you have the wisdom, you know slow down and pass it along.
Michael Hume:But the society that we exist in currently speaking specifically about you know whatever quote, unquote Western society, and I mean I don't know where you're going with this podcast or how deep you want to get into it, but you know that family structure is definitely doesn't get a lot of support, definitely doesn't get a lot of support, doesn't get a lot of nurturing. That family structure has been under attack, some people may say, for quite some time, because if you can break down the family structure and you can you know it's quite easier to generally break people down in certain ways.
Sherisse Alexander:I think there's value going into it, because something that I have absolutely talked about on some of the podcast episodes is you know, I've been honest that you and I have been separated and divorced for gosh I don't even know how many years now, but long enough and I think that you and I did no, I'm going to pat us on the back. I think that we've done a fairly admirable job of ensuring that we kept that family unit very strong. Even though we chose not to be in a relationship together in a romantic sense, we were still, I think, able to provide a foundation of family for our children. Do you, from your perspective, do you agree?
Michael Hume:And oh 100%.
Sherisse Alexander:Yeah. So why do you think that is? Why do you feel like you and I were able to say you know what? We don't want to be together, but we want to still have this strong family foundation from your perspective?
Michael Hume:Yeah, I mean, I don't even know if it's so much as saying we don't want to be together, as much as acknowledging that maybe we weren't the healthiest, we weren't, we weren't, you know, providing um, the most healthy space for, for our own individual growth, and but we both, I think, acknowledge and realize the value and the importance of, of, of that family structure. And you know you speak about our children quite highly, and of course I do as well, and I think that putting them ahead and putting them first, I think really makes you you see what's important, because I mean that's, that's the future, right, and if nothing else, you know I say the function of life is reproduction, but really like that's more on a physical level, but the everyone has their own purpose. But in my mind, you know, the purpose of life is just, you know, to make more good people, to make better people. The future is, it's all about the future, right, and so understanding the importance of that structure and the value of that family dynamic, I think it kind of makes it easy.
Michael Hume:You know, I think we've all seen other individuals go through kind of nasty breakups and you know children get used as, unfortunately, as pieces in this struggle or pawned in a war or whatever. And you look at those situations you really wonder, like what's actually? Who's benefiting from this? Even our legal systems I mean, I've got friends, you've got friends, we've all been witness to these things where you know you'll see people go through our formal system of you know, arbitration or mediation or whatever.
Michael Hume:Once you start getting other people involved in the family structure, trying to make decisions for what's best. Often they're not making decisions that are in the best interest of the children at all and you have to wonder, like why is that? Like what's actually happening? Why, why are these decisions made like this? Like, is there a reason why our system, our family system, court system, justice system, whatever you want to say doesn't truly make decisions in the best interest of the children? I think you know, tying that all back to your question, I think really all we did was make decisions that were in the best interest of our children.
Sherisse Alexander:ultimately, I would agree, and I think that the other part of that is that I think forever. I've always said you know, mike's a good man and he's a good father, and perhaps we and there's also something that your mom would always say, and this is even before we split up your mom would say things like children are products of love. That's what they are, and I think that you know, I mean I'm human and you're human. So that doesn't mean that there weren't feelings that came up, that weren't difficult, or that I didn't get angry or that I wasn't sad or that those things didn't come up. But I think that if, for myself, what I would do is I would just bring myself back to.
Sherisse Alexander:You know, as you said, this is about the kids, number one and number two. This is a good person. Period this. You, as in Michael Hume, you are a good human being. So I'm not going to villainize you in this particular scenario. You have your feelings as well, and I think that's where it gets really difficult when relationships break down is that it's tough to see that, because you're so steeped in your hurt, your pain, your victimhood, your story that you can't see beyond that to the people who actually matter the most in that, which are are the kids at that moment anyways.
Michael Hume:Yeah, absolutely, and I mean there is that aspect to it. And then there's also the aspect of personal growth to it, right, like there's the aspect of you know, when something breaks down, like, like a relationship like that, you know you really have to. You, you know, take a step back and and examine that. I mean I shouldn't say you have to, um, you have the opportunity to take that, take a step back and examine that and, should you choose to take to take advantage of that opportunity, there's a lot of self-growth that can be found there, you know, and really owning your, your role in that, and really owning like, okay, like, because it's over now, right, it's over. There's nothing to be angry about, there's nothing to be sad about.
Michael Hume:It's not over, it's just changed, it's just different that that particular form of the relationship has now changed and, um, you can look at it honestly. Um, so that aspect of it has changed. So then you can look at it honestly and be like, okay, here's an opportunity for reflection and growth, right? Absolutely absolutely.
Sherisse Alexander:Absolutely For you. What do you feel are some of the challenges that you faced over the years as a father?
Michael Hume:um, do you let's see how do you, how I know they're praying that like, like challenges, like chat, like challenges in okay with, as a partner, as a father, challenges directly with, um, you know, in terms of raising children, trying to impart upon them things that you don't even know yourself yet.
Sherisse Alexander:I think that you're answering the question as exactly as it's intended. The things that pop into mind, you know, when people talk about being parents I mean mothers often will say things like you know, finding time for me, balancing this, da-da-da-da-da. So I don't know that. People ask men the same question. What are the biggest challenges that readily come to mind when you think about you know, your experience as a dad.
Michael Hume:I mean, finding ways to have individual connections with each of your children is a challenge, you know, especially when you have, you know, four kids in this day and age. You, you know it's a lot. And when you're when you're young, as we were, you still have that sense of self and your own personal experience. That you're young, as we were, you still have that sense of self and, um, your own personal experience that you're going into or going through. So it can be, uh, challenging to forge those unique relationships. So that's a challenge for sure. I mean I can think back to, you know, daddy, daughter, dates and mandates and trying to find, like, time to spend each individual child, one on one, in the midst of all the chaos that's going around, going on around us, and I think that's a challenge, um, and doing that at the right time so that it sticks, uh, to get the maximum value out of that uh. But then you know you don't even really realize that you're doing that at the time, you don't really realize that that's what's what's going on here. I think, other things you know, quite simply, like navigating answers to or situations that you know you haven't really given thought to, um, I guess a lot of it is acting on instinct. You just kind of act on instinct and you hope you're making the right decisions, and then you figure it along the way that maybe that wasn't right. And then you know you try to you make, so you make some adjustments for the next one that comes along, and so you kind of they're doing this fine-tuned stage and maybe by the time that third or fourth kid, you kind of have an idea of what you're doing.
Michael Hume:Um, so you know, I'm not really giving you any concrete answers here, but I'm just sort of thinking on the on the fly here. You know the the challenges are. You know, um, as a man, there's ego involved in all things that you do as well. So when you go through the stage of growth where you know your children start going into their own and maybe some of their thoughts don't necessarily align or drive what you, you think you've imparted to them along the way, you kind of have to like okay, what happened there? I'm not sure, but that's okay, that's, that's your journey, that's your path, go for it. Um, that's challenging.
Sherisse Alexander:Um, I'm only chuckling, because on one of my podcasts I talk about that challenge, right when we raise these very independent children. We wanted them to be independent, we wanted them to think for themselves and then the day comes where they drop it in your face and you're like, oh, I meant everybody, but not me.
Michael Hume:Yeah, yeah, what do you mean? I'm supposed to command, you know, ultimate respect and undoing admiration here. So what do you mean? I? I, I'm supposed to command, you know, ultimate respect and and undoing admiration here. So what do you mean?
Sherisse Alexander:All powerful overlord.
Michael Hume:Yeah, so there's that, there's that I, you know, I think, in in all honesty, I, I'm, I'm maybe floundering around or struggling with this question a little bit because, you know, uh, just maybe part of my outlook on life is, it's just that, um, you know, there's, there's no losses, only lessons, kind of thing, right? So, even in challenging times and even when there's moments where things don't go necessarily to grace, like I, I don't, I I just don't get too bent out of shape over it. That that much, um, but you know, obviously I've had my moments. But, um, ultimately, I think, once you get to the stage where you acknowledge that you're learning as much from them, if not more, than you're teaching them, and all these challenges, you know, they look more like opportunities, right. So it's, it's uh, it's tough to pick them out as challenges, really, so to speak. Like, there's the keeping the fridge full challenge. There's the you know, juggling all the activities challenge, but yeah, those are not really that deep.
Sherisse Alexander:Those are logistics.
Michael Hume:Yeah, those are logistics. I think the challenge really comes into that. Those first things that I said just in terms of like finding the time and the space to create individual and unique relationships with each person in such a busy household. And there's just, quite frankly, there's more space, there's more time. When you have four, there's less space and there's less time, and so there's only so many hours in a day, there's only so many days in a week, and when you're so focused on survival in a lot of these moments because you're young parents and you're trying to raise kids and you are trying to handle those logistics, then sometimes some of those more qualitative moments might pass you by before you realize that that has passed you by.
Sherisse Alexander:You know it's interesting in all of that, and I agree with you that those challenges absolutely are present, especially when you know there's four strong individuals who each need something so very different. But what I didn't hear you say and it's curious is you said absolutely nothing about yourself within that.
Michael Hume:And what do you mean by that?
Sherisse Alexander:So one of the challenges that I felt when we were raising the kids when they were young was how do I keep my identity very separate within all of this, how do I be something aside from mom and how do I make sure that now I think I did a reasonably okay job of doing that, but then there's always these feelings of like guilt and my kids and are they going to feel you know ABC and XYZ, but you didn't say anything like that, and I find that curious that, as a father and as a man, everything that you said had very much to do with you know. Yes, you talked about logistics, but these unique connections with these kids, but you didn't say anything about finding time for yourself.
Michael Hume:Yeah, well, I think, interestingly enough, I mean that's, I'm not surprised by that, and just because recently, as they've gotten to this point where now our youngest are, you know, turning 20 years old this year, I've just now gotten to the stage of life where I'm trying to figure out the answer to that question about myself. For those first 27 years, my identity in myself was wholly and entirely wrapped up in in my identity as a father, and I've talked about this with other people recently where, you know, for this, you know, like I said, last 27 years of my life, that has been my identity, right, it is, I am the father. You know this, coach, mike, you know father figure, even not just to my own children, to all these other children in that capacity, right, and so I very much leaned into that. And now, as our children are entering this new phase of their lives, is the first time when I've actually sort of taken pause to to examine that question.
Sherisse Alexander:Is that overwhelming in any sense? I don't know if it is First time in 27 years.
Michael Hume:I don't know if it's necessarily overwhelming, but it's definitely reframing the journey for sure. You know it's. It's taking a moment to be like okay, actually, like who actually am I in this, in this thing, because for this last however many, again, however many years, that has been the context, that's been the lens through which all my decisions were made. And what are you learning If you want to share?
Sherisse Alexander:What am I learning? I?
Michael Hume:mean, you're still a father, but who is Michael Hume without the lens of only being a father? Yeah Right, um, well, I guess, kind of this kind of this adventurous guy who's uh, who's missing, being on the move.
Sherisse Alexander:Okay, dude, that's always been a part of you Like I don't.
Michael Hume:I don't know when you thought that that had gone somewhere. That's why we send you those death defying things.
Michael Hume:Yeah, no, I don't. I'm not a daredevil in that sense of the word. I definitely know my limits in those cases. But yeah, I don't know, I think just definitely enjoying the curiosity of the world, like just looking at things through the eyes of someone who's always you, just you just realize that you know the more you, the more you learn, the more you realize how little you know, right, and so I don't know, just just embracing all the different nuances of life, trying to trying as best as I can to try to slow things down on a day-to-day basis. I mean, lord knows, time's just been flying by so fast. I'm trying to appreciate it, just trying to. Yeah, I don't know, my journey's been pretty interesting the last few years specifically, still trying to kind of find my footing in it in my way. So, I don't know, I'm learning a lot. I think, definitely trying to learn more about or lean into my feelings a little bit more. I think definitely for a long period of time. Like I said, the reforming asshole vibe has definitely been my thing.
Sherisse Alexander:You know I'm just going to pause you there for a second. I have to. You know, when you would say that I'm just like this guy is just trying to give himself a bye to be an asshole for the rest of his life.
Michael Hume:No, no, no, I'm reforming. I'm reforming, but it's a work in progress, right? Because I think that, like there's certain elements of your character that just the way they are, and and I don't and I don't know if it's you know, I use the word asshole, but I think you know, as of you know, you asked what am I learning? I think, as I'm learning, I think as I'm learning, I think what that phrase really kind of embodies was there's a sense of empathy or lack of that. That sort of embodies the asshole spirit or the asshole mentality is essentially marked with the lack of empathy, right? Because when you don't have empathy for somebody else, it's very easy just to come across as an asshole, like you know. It's like what do you like? What's wrong with you? Like I don't understand why you don't understand, what don't you get? Like, get it, come on, get it. Why don't you understand?
Michael Hume:get on my page. Yeah, like, why aren't you understanding? This is very simple, I don't get it. And so that lack of empathy definitely, you know, is, is characterized, or can be characterized, as the quote-unquote asshole, and I think that was sort of for a long time that was, that was my mo.
Michael Hume:I was like I'm not responsible for your feelings or for how you feel and, to be to be frank, I still, I still very much hold that. You know, ultimately, as individuals, we are the ones who are responsible for our feelings, our reactions. But I've, uh, I've learned more about taking accountability for, for your role in that. Not to say that I'm when I say I, I just mean generally people not to say that I'm when I say I, I just mean generally people not to say that you're, you are responsible for other person's feelings because you're not they're responsible for their reactions, but you can definitely influence them, like you can play a role in that and in how you treat people, how you speak to people, how you, you know, behave and move, and I think that's, you know, the growth of empathy has been one area where I think that's I've learned a lot. I'd like to think that I've learned a lot.
Sherisse Alexander:I think that in a lot of ways, though, and to be really honest with you, michael, the one thing that I've always really valued in who you are and I hope you actually never, ever change is your commitment to being fully authentic, and there's nothing wrong with wanting to deliver your truth really as you perceive it.
Sherisse Alexander:I think maybe where it is maybe tough for people to handle is how it's delivered. So you're right and I wholeheartedly agree with you. I'm not responsible for how you feel. What I'm responsible for is speaking my truth from my perspective, with as much love, compassion and empathy as I possibly can deliver in that situation, because the truth is is you can say it as nice as you want, and somebody's experience is still going to be colored by what, what you said, whether it was. So all I can do is really deliver it with as much love as possible and have that intention behind whatever it is that I'm sharing with you. Um, so I don't, don't ever change that piece. Actually, I don't even think you could change that truth speaking piece of you so don't don't change it, but I wanted to go back.
Michael Hume:Sorry, go ahead. No, no, that's, that's fine, I was just gonna, I was just going to agree. I do have an odd commitment to that honesty component of things, sometimes to a fault.
Sherisse Alexander:Well, I think it's just the world that we live in today. If we're being really honest, I think people feel bamboozled on so many different fronts in their experience on a daily basis, um, on so many different fronts in their experience on a daily basis. So I think it's extremely refreshing, um, when you can interact with someone who is so honest and doesn't know how to be any other way, because there's so many examples in a day-to-day experience of where that doesn't happen. So thank you for being a truth teller. It is, uh, I'm a truth seeker and I guess you're a truth teller, so that works.
Sherisse Alexander:Um, I was curious, though. I just wanted to go back to something that you'd said, um, when you were talking about feelings. Um, and actually I did I did an episode with Anthony as well, where we were talking about this and I was saying to him that I actually and I don't know if I've ever said this to you or not, but I actually can appreciate I feel like right now, society as a whole isn't like this, when we're always in constant transition, but there's a real shift right now, and what I mean is is like there's there's, it's like we, as women we were talking about how men and women relate to each other, right. So we as women always want men to talk about their feelings. And what are you feeling? And tell me your feelings.
Sherisse Alexander:And I think it was Will Smith who said once on a red table talk. He's like why are you asking about my feelings? Nobody gives a fuck about my feelings. So do you think that's maybe part of the challenge? Is that nobody's ever asked men, hey, how do you feel about this? I mean, you might have them, but nobody really asks you how you feel, or maybe they do. But do you think that's maybe part of this transition? Is that it wasn't really celebrated, I think, until recently, for men to be very open about their feelings and their experience and the things that they're challenged with?
Michael Hume:I mean, I agree, definitely, like traditionally, historically, you know, men, that's.
Michael Hume:You know, if we're talking about the quote unquote, traditional male is, is not to be that emotional person, is to be that stoicness, to be that rock, to be that. You know, in the, in the midst of the chaos, in the storm, you know you're supposed to be the one that's dependable and can be relied upon, because if you lose your head then everybody's going to lose their head, right, and you know, this is where you know we. And again I say and you know this is where you know we. And again I say traditionally have this, you know male-female energy balance, right, I mean, females traditionally are the more emotional, are, the more nurturing they're, the more central spirit and soul. And men provide the counterbalance to that by being more stoic and more logical and rational. And again, I use these as generalities. Obviously there's nuances in all of these things, but generally speaking, you know that's that's, that's the balance and that's what makes, that's what. When two come together you get that wholesome, that wholesome, um, completion of the pair, right, and so.
Michael Hume:And now, as we sort of transition societally to the space where there's, you know, again, I'm not sure where you want to go with this. But now, as we start to blur the lines between masculine and feminine and start to lose that definition where we have these, lose that definition, where we have these, um, I don't want to say expectations, but where we have these, these, um, I guess they're a little bit of expectations in terms of how one is going to behave once that starts to break down. Now we've got these spaces where there's this ambiguity between masculine, feminine energy. Sure, um, men are entering, entering spaces more so where they're feeling, you know, that they can express their feelings, which is which is fine, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that at all. I certainly am in in the same space where I'm becoming more available to talk and discuss about these things. But I do think that there also is a place, for there are times and there are places and there are spaces where sometimes Losing that established norm causes confusion, and I think that confusion is sort of bleeding into society now, where people no longer can rely on those expectations or can rely on those, let's say, assumptions, and it makes people a little bit unmoored, right? So you know, recently it's like and I can't speak for a woman, obviously, I can't speak from a woman's perspective, but as a man, I've certainly had the impression from a woman that you, that they want their man to be in touch with their feelings, but not too soft, like, don't go too far.
Michael Hume:Like, don't be too soft, like, listen, here are you. Are you a man or are you not a man? Because I don't need my man crying here in front of me. That's not, that's now. You've gone too far the other way. So I want you to be soft and gentle and understand and have these components, but I don't want you to be a man skin Like stop it, there's a limit to it.
Sherisse Alexander:I think it depends on the woman. To be honest with you. I think that, as women, if we are going to say to men that I want you to be, I'm inviting you. You don't have to if you don't want to, but I'm inviting you to be more in touch with your emotions and please feel free to share those with me, because it provides a new level of intimacy between you and I.
Sherisse Alexander:Now, if I really love you, I'm not going to judge you for showing me that vulnerability, and so that's why I say I think it really depends on the woman, because, I mean, I've known extremely strong men who've cried in front of me and I didn't judge them for that. In fact, it endeared me to them because I was, like I felt, honored that you trust me enough that you can be so completely vulnerable with me in this moment that you can show me this, and I don't look at it as weakness. I've never looked at tears as weakness. I look at it as an extremely cathartic release that needs to happen, because I'm a firm believer that when we store these emotions in our body, nothing good comes from that. So I think you know to your point and you're right you can't speak and I'm not speaking for all women either.
Sherisse Alexander:I think that it really depends on the woman, and that's why I talk about it being. I think it's confusing for men because of exactly what you just said. You want me to be in touch with my emotions, but you don't want me to cry. So which is it? What exactly is it that you want here?
Michael Hume:Yeah, and I don't want to link it specifically to crying, because I mean, certainly I've cried, I'm a man and I've shed tears and I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
Michael Hume:I just mean softer emotions, that's all I mean. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I just I, yeah, no, I, I think I think it is a new space for men to be in and I think that it I don't know, you know, going back to that idea of, like the you know that older generation being cut from a different cloth, right, I think it also has to do with like, much simpler times that you're living in, like, like the world as common, not to downplay the complexities of, you know, yesteryears or or to see, or to make it seem like, you know, somehow we've got it worse or whatever. But you know, there was certain things that you could count on. You know what I mean. Like now, it seems like you, you can't believe anything. You see, certainly can't believe anything. You hear everything's.
Michael Hume:Just, we're living in such a state of fog in terms of, uh, like, going back to breaking down the family, right, breaking down the family structure, it's. It's not just that, but by breaking down family structure, you've broken down a lot of societal norms, for better, for worse, not to say that all these societal norms were good or beneficial, but with you could, you could count on certain things. You, you kind of understood certain things, the way they worked. And you know even the worst, even the worst of people. You know you could, you could, you could expect a certain behavior out of somebody, even if it was shitty and you knew it was bad. You, you knew what you were dealing with. You know, call a spade a spade, uh.
Michael Hume:But now, with, with everything being masked and and and all these things, you know it makes it very challenging, right? I mean, who? Where is the authenticity? Where is that? And if you're going to be genuine with those feelings, then be genuine and be it. But you know there's also, I don't know there's, there's a, there's an element of theater to it. All right, so it's, I don't know, it's all interesting, it's all very interesting. I'm kind of rambling a little bit.
Sherisse Alexander:It is very interesting and you know it's an excellent segue Because you know. No, it's an excellent segue because you know you said something about and you're right when you break down structures that have been in place and institutions that have been in place in a certain way for a very long time, everybody's in a state of flux and confusion, right? Nobody really knows or maybe what it is is that nobody really has a sense of what feels real, as you just said anymore, because it all seems very chaotic and confusing. So I think my thought is that it's a call to rely on something aside from what you see, and I think that's probably the biggest challenge that we experience now.
Sherisse Alexander:So technology is great and it's amazing there's massive amounts of information at your fingertips in a moment but it's a double-edged sword. So, because now there's all this fake news, can you even believe what you read, that you're digesting? So I think what we're being asked to do in a non-physical, so spiritual, sense, is to rely on something else, right? My dad used to say to me believe half of what you see and none of what you hear. So it requires a different set of senses, I think, to be employed. What are your thoughts around that?
Michael Hume:Absolutely. And you know, maybe you're sort of leaning towards, like intuition or that spiritual guide or that little, that guiding sense that you know that, in that that guiding sense, that you know that, in that that inherent sense of right and wrong that you hope or you, you think, you think exists, you kind of think that there's. There's this sort of like inherent sense of good, bad, right, wrong, up and down. Um, no matter how much they try to confuse the issue, um, that you kind of still know. And I think there's a bit of a pushback. Now, as the pendulum swings, you know, one way, there's always a little bit of pushback with people like it doesn't quite feel right. So what is that feeling that makes them go? It doesn't quite feel right, you know, is that, is that kind of what you're getting at?
Sherisse Alexander:Yeah, I'm really talking about utilizing faith and our spirituality in in our day to day, because it's so. The example that you used is so real that everybody can see around them, which is, you're right. It's a state of confusion and transition right now, because what was is no longer and is going to something new, but we don't know what it is because it's not settled yet. So how do I navigate myself through this when I can't necessarily rely on what I see or what I hear? And so, yes, intuition is definitely part of it. Do you use your intuition?
Michael Hume:I think that I do and I think that that, yeah, you're right like so, as we as a society, as a planet, you know, go through some of these construction, deconstructions and reconstructions of our societal norms. You know, one of the things that we're that's happening is, as they, as one set of norms breaks down we don't really have an offering of a new set of norms, and so that, you know, you know we want to break down all these things, but what are we replacing them with? And without that, that's where this sense of maybe misguidance or confusion comes from. You know, going back to the idea of spiritual or religious centering, um, you know, those are, you know, the stories that we tell ourselves, right, and so when you have a unifying story or a common story amongst you know some group of people, then you can easily rally around and and sort of all share in the commonality of that story. You know, those are the things that that provide cohesion and provide that guidance to groups of people. And right now, yeah, we don't have that. And you know where? Where do we think we're going to find that?
Michael Hume:I think there's truth seekers, and you said you're a truth seeker. What is the ultimate truth? Right, I mean those people who really, really want to embrace or search for what the ultimate truth is. You know, those people have an open sense of openness to them and to their daily movements. That you know. You can kind of see that, that this person is open to exploration, open to new ways of viewing and doing things. But you know what are those? What? What is the truth right? What is ultimately the truth? You know what is it.
Michael Hume:You know science is in pursuit of the ultimate truth. Is it going to find it? Is there, is there? Is there an intersectionality of science and religion that we're sort of aiming for here, where, where we want to, we want to be able to prove spirituality without a shadow of a doubt. Let's see, people can say, oh, look there, I can see it, I can touch it. This is that, this is what causes that feeling, this is what causes that sensation. This is is where intuition comes from. Do we want to be able to explain that? Do we need to be able to explain that in order to accept it?
Sherisse Alexander:Yeah, I don't think that we need to be able to explain it, and I think that if you try to come at it from that perspective, you might find yourself grossly disappointed, because my experience is that faith and spirituality make absolutely no sense, at least not to the human analytical mind. We are so constrained by our physical experience that it's very difficult to approach something from like what is faith? Faith is believing in something without having evidence or proof of it, but it also means that you need to be, and so here's where I've gotten to with it. There's evidence and proof around it, on a daily basis, moment to moment, like all the time all around us.
Sherisse Alexander:The problem is and you and I would talk about this frequently you're on this wheel that you can't get off, and or you don't want to get off of it because of all of the things that you feel like you have to do. So how can you actually witness it if you're not, if you're so distracted by being on the wheel, the wheel of life, and doing all the things you feel like you have to do? So I think that if you approach faith and spirituality from, I must have evidence and I must understand why At least that's for me. I can drive myself batty with it. So I try to approach it from a very different perspective, where I think I've been forced to approach it from a very different perspective, where I think I've been forced to approach it more from a genuinely just having faith and belief and to the point now where I feel like if I ask for something, I will bear witness on it fairly, fairly quickly in my I'm paying attention.
Michael Hume:Yeah, you know this is a fun topic, right, we could, we could have fun with this one all the time, right, you know, there's all kinds of elements of confirmation bias that go into some of this stuff where it's like, oh you know, if you look for something, you'll find it, Not to say that that's necessarily what happens. I mean, I have, I have my own sort of relationship with spirituality, um, and sort of that realm of unknown, and I, I, I it's not to say that I think ultimately we need to prove it. It's just sort of. I think there's some, some people that that search for proof, but I mean, it's like.
Michael Hume:It's like does the fish know that he's in water? Does the fish feel the current? Like, if you're, you know it can? Can the fish ever actually know that you know he's in an ocean, with, with, and, and that the current is pushing him in a certain way? Or is it? There's that just? It's like us on the planet spinning, like we don't really feel the fact that we're on this giant rock hurtling through space, right, and we're just cosmic stardust, like we don't, we can't, we have no way to perceive that. We feel like we're stationary, we feel like we're grounded. We're grounded on a rock that's flying through space.
Sherisse Alexander:Is it possible? However and here's the thing about faith and spirituality, like whatever resonates with you, I think that all paths eventually lead to a single truth that we're really not meant to know until we pass from this particular life. So I don't really, to me, it doesn't matter how you get there. If it's through organized religion, if it's through spirituality, whatever it is, as long as you're not hurting anybody. And if it's through spirituality, whatever it is, as long as you're not hurting anybody, I think that we'll eventually get there. But I think that the truth that resonates with you, right? So it's not about convincing anybody else on your truth, right? Because I think when you hear something you'll know it's like okay, you've been to church before and this is not to bash going to church but did it ever resonate with you when you went to church? Did it ever feel like, oh, this is home.
Michael Hume:You know it's funny. I mean, obviously you're aware that I'm not a big form of religion person and my experience with church is rather few and far between, with churches rather few and far between. But when you do go, what does resonate is the sense of community right. Regardless of the message that's being given or the language in which it's being given in, or the customs or the ceremonies that take place in these spaces, it always comes down to the sense of community right, and the sense of fellowship and understanding. And I think that you know, as certain power structures in our world really seek to break down that sense of community, that's ultimately where we find the most loss and the most yearning or most desire. We want that sense of community, that sense of connection, and so for me it's.
Michael Hume:It comes down to really feeling. It's a sense of feeling and it's a sense of being able to be, um, to be in touch with the energy right, Because you know, people walk into a room and you can feel their energy, you can feel people's energy, you can feel shitty situations, you can feel good situations. So, know, I think it's, you know, going back to that idea of thinking logically, it's letting, letting that logical thought process go a little bit and just trusting the feeling, like with those goosebumps that you get always. You know I say follow the goosebumps. You know what I mean. Whenever I, whenever I hear or feel something that I know is inherently true, I get goosebumps and I'm like, ooh, when I get those goosebumps, I know that that's the path.
Sherisse Alexander:Sensation is that you receive when it feels like the truth, or maybe more appropriately, put the truth for you at that moment in time, because that can also change as we grow and we evolve. So today it might be this thing, tomorrow it might be something else, but it's all ultimately to get you to whatever your purpose is supposed to be in this lifetime. So, and however you get there, so your relationship with faith at this point, what does that look like?
Michael Hume:I mean, I don't, I don't if, by faith, if we're talking about the organized structures of the world, I don't really have a tight bond with any of them. The organized structures of the world I don't really have a tight bond with with any of them. Um, you know, I I try to follow the goosebumps. That's pretty much my relationship with it.
Michael Hume:I try to be, I try to be aware of the energy in in, in the spaces that I'm in. I try to be aware of my own energy. I try to be aware of the vibrations that I'm putting out into the world, my own energy. I try to be aware of the vibrations that I'm putting out into the world because I wholeheartedly believe that, you know, you, you get back what you put out, tenfold sometimes, and so I try to be very conscious of that. And you know that's ultimately my relationship. It's it's very, it's very simple, it's very, it's not complicated at all. I just try to be good and be good to people and live life in the moment, and when I feel situations that are good, I enjoy them. When I feel situations that are bad, I extricate myself.
Sherisse Alexander:Maybe I should take a page out of your book.
Michael Hume:I try not to overcomplicate things at all by thinking too much about it. I realize that we're all headed for the same place. It's only the journey that's different. The destination is ultimately the same. It doesn't matter what you believe, the destination is the same. You can't pick to go to a different place just because you want to believe that. You know what I mean.
Sherisse Alexander:So I'll see you on the other side, yeah basically Just with some closing thoughts, as this is, you know, as a part of fathers and men and all that kind of stuff. Are there any last comments that you would share with other fathers out there, that you would like to share A juicy nugget in the eye of the storm? What would you say to them?
Michael Hume:Yeah, what would I say to fathers? I wish I had some good nugget of wisdom. Maybe don't take yourself too seriously. Remember that kids are on their journey. Everyone's have, everyone has their own journey. When you, when you feel that resistance, when you feel something pushing back against, you just know that that's the wind Right, so you just spread your wings, lean into it and fly.
Sherisse Alexander:That's so good, that's so good. I got to tell you the I don't know about you, okay, so maybe this is the last question, but uh, I've said on this, maybe I haven't said it yet, but I I've definitely recorded a podcast where I've said the biggest challenge, the biggest, the most difficult phase of being a parent that I've actually experienced is the one right now with adult children. It wasn't the babies, it wasn't the toddlers, it wasn't the crazy years of being on 12 different football fields, it was not that. It is this one right now that you and I are in with all these adult children. Would you agree?
Michael Hume:adult children, would you agree? I don't know if I agree with that. Um, fair, uh, I think I mean I see where you're coming from with it. I think I think what's difficult about this particular time is the lack of control that we have as parents. Growing up with kids, you always believe you're in control. Whether or not you were is another story, but you had a sense that you were in control of things and you're steering the ship. And hey, if I say, say, do this, you do that.
Michael Hume:But now, when it gets to this point, like that's, that's gone, that that sense of control is gone. And you know you, like you say, you always say roots and wings. You give these kids, you hope you gave them, uh, enough, enough grounding to know where to come from, but enough courage to fly right. And so it's letting go, like being able to being able to let go, and and just you know say, hey, that's your, that, that's your journey. Now, you know you, you you do something stupid, like it hurts me and I'm like what, the what are you doing? And but at the same time it's like I guess that's your lesson man, that's your, that's your journey now Not my monkey, not my circus.
Michael Hume:Not my monkey, not my circus, but I mean even so much as like, if I need somebody to come dig up the backyard for a garden now, I can't just tell you to do it Like I got to ask him. What do you mean? I got to, what do you mean? You're busy.
Sherisse Alexander:I've even witnessed them being like, like, just indignant that you had an expectation that they were like. They didn't even ask me, they just assumed that I was going to be available.
Michael Hume:Yeah.
Sherisse Alexander:We're learning too, okay, kids if you're listening, we're learning too Still yeah.
Michael Hume:So I brought all the shovels. How come I don't have bodies for all these shovels? Like realizing that, um, yeah, so so I don't know, I I don't know if, necessarily, though, I would call it the most difficult, but from that perspective, I can appreciate where you're coming from, because that, that, that is that is tricky, that, that sense of letting go and that and it's it's. You know, you hope you did good, you hope you did okay.
Sherisse Alexander:Well, you only reminded me of it because you've said, when you feel that resistance and it's been my experience like a lot in this last year, more than any year where our kids are like they're standing their ground on things with me and they're they're telling me, when my input is not required, um, and I'm just like, okay, I will say nothing, then I will just sit here and watch and, uh, that's tricky for me. It's really really tricky for me because I used to feel like the person and maybe in some ways I still am. But it's just, that's the transition that I'm struggling with, but we'll get through it, just like all the other phases. So, anyway, I was just curious if it was as challenging for you as it is for me, but apparently not.
Michael Hume:Well, yeah, I don't know, I guess it's it's hard to say, it's hard to say. I'm thinking about it in relation to the other phases that we've gone through. But yeah, the I, yeah, I don't know. I maybe have to give that one a little more thought.
Sherisse Alexander:Yeah, no worries. Well, thank you so much, michael, for joining us today and sharing a little bit about being a father to our kids and some of the transitions that we've gone through ourselves, and getting a little deep talking about society and those transitions. I always enjoy our discourse and chatting, so thank you for giving us your time today. I appreciate it.
Michael Hume:My pleasure. I appreciate the chance to chat.
Sherisse Alexander:Yes.
Michael Hume:I always talk, you know, I'm always up for a good convo. I know you are. Thank you, all right, no problem.
Sherisse Alexander:Thank you everyone for joining me today, as I sat and spoke with Michael about his experiences as a father, and he was able to share some of the challenges and things that he's learned. If you enjoyed today's episode, then please feel free to follow or subscribe to the podcast, which you can find on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Until next time, take care Bye.