Your Collective - Mind, Body & Spiritual Balance
Your Collective is a space where we explore the ways in which we can calm and quiet the mind, so that we can tune into and listen to our bodies and ultimately listen to the whisper of what our soul desires. How do we connect the trifecta so that they can work together in harmony and unity?
Your Collective - Mind, Body & Spiritual Balance
Transforming Economic Hardship into Financial Wellness
Nadine Zumot's journey from economic hardship in the Middle East to financial empowerment across continents is nothing short of inspiring. She shares how her upbringing amidst financial scarcity shaped her emotional and psychological relationship with money, leading to a powerful spiritual awakening that transformed her life in 2015. Nadine's story uncovers the deep-seated fears and traumas that many of us carry, and she offers a unique perspective on how to heal these wounds to achieve true financial freedom.
Moving beyond conventional financial advice, this episode unpacks Nadine's discovery of non-traditional money healing, a journey sparked by physical pain and dissatisfaction with typical financial planning. She highlights the importance of spiritual alignment and intuition in managing finances, especially for women. By sharing her own experiences, Nadine emphasizes the need for a holistic, trauma-informed approach to financial health that integrates emotional, psychological, and spiritual growth.
We also explore the intricate relationship between financial trauma and emotional healing, discussing common but often unrecognized indicators of a toxic relationship with money. Nadine sheds light on the pitfalls of the coaching and manifestation industries while offering practical advice on reclaiming personal power and ensuring basic needs are met. This episode is a treasure trove of insights and actionable steps for anyone looking to transform their financial behaviors and achieve lasting security.
Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, wherever you are when you're listening to this. My name is Sherisse Alexander, your host of Your Collective. On today's episode, I will be joined by fellow podcaster, Nadine Zumot. The name of Nadine's podcast is Unfuck your Money, and how I managed to stumble upon Nadine was I had put an intention out there, and my intention was that I would meet somebody who was a money coach or could help shift my perspective on how to create wealth in our experience and enter in Nadine Zumont. So today we will be chatting about energetic blocks around the receipt of money bringing abundance into your life, and sometimes some of the shame that goes along with either having money or, if there's actually a trauma related to money, so be it poverty, scarcity, mindsets, a life event such as bankruptcy, or consumer proposal. So, without further delay, let us dive in delay, let us dive in.
Sherisse Alexander:Thank you so much, nadine, for joining me today.
Nadine Zumot:I really really appreciate it A little bit.
Sherisse Alexander:Thanks for having me, yes, and I think the way that I found you was 100% serendipitous I love that word, but the way I found you was 100% divinely guided. But the way I found you was 100% divinely guided. But before we dive in, if you don't mind, can you share with listeners today a little bit about who you are, how you got here and the story of Unfuck?
Nadine Zumot:Your Money podcast. Wow, okay, all right. So my name is Nadine Zumot. I'm a Jordanian, Australian, American. I have acquired the.
Nadine Zumot:I was born in Jordan but I've traveled and I've acquired all these nationalities, which is quite impossible for a little girl from Jordan, because back then in the 80s it was pretty much like a just stay at home kind of thing, good girl kind of mentality. But I grew up with a lot of economical scarcity around me because of all the wars that were happening in the 80s in Iraq and Palestine and all that stuff. So we had a lot of economical scarcity in the Middle East at the time and of course, it didn't help that my dad at home was really I wouldn't say like he was your typical strict Arab father, but he was operating from his own unresolved issues Isn't that a nice way of putting it? Like so, so neutral issues, instead of like saying he was an asshole. Just like my dad had issues. There was a lot of like emotional abuse, some physical abuse, but mostly financial abuse in the home and money was like this, oppressor for me and my siblings, even for my mom, and I miraculously left Jordan and went to Australia when I was 23 and, you know, lived my life, went to uni, did all that stuff and I had this mentality of like I'm really good with money because I don't spend it. Like, as I progressed in life and my income increased, my anxiety increased too. You would think that you make more money, you know the money, anxiety will decrease, but what was happening was that it was actually becoming worse, will decrease, but what was happening was that it was actually becoming worse. Like you would think increasing your income by like 50 grand a year would help you like live better. But I was living worse.
Nadine Zumot:I was becoming more and more like, um, hoardy with it, like just wanting to hold onto it, scared that it's going to go away, scared that the goodness is going to run out, scared like that. That lack attack mentality was like front row and center in my life um, yeah, too much, you know too much, and it was really like affecting how I eat, how I. You know. I would have this like if my best friend would have a birthday and I would want to buy her a nice gift, but I just couldn't because of this like inexplicable fear. Like I've got thousands of dollars in my savings account, but I cannot like put extra $10 on the thing that I really want and I end up buying her something that makes me embarrassed, for example, and that sounds like, okay, great, you know, like, oh, you've got lots of money and you're scared of spending it. What a you know whoop-dee-doo.
Nadine Zumot:But actually it really is such a big impact when you then go out into the world and step into that identity of wanting to help people, because when you start leading by your own scarcity wounds, that's what you're going to further perpetuate into the world Right 2015,. I had this like smack on the face, spiritual awakening type. You know, sometimes we have like these cute spiritual awakenings and you're like, oh, an epiphany. But sometimes they just smack you on the head and you're like, oh, I'm sorry, where are those ones?
Sherisse Alexander:where are the gentle ones?
Nadine Zumot:no, yeah, right like yeah it's like boom, like oh shit, anyway. So that one was like you have to change everything about your life and you need to go and help people with their money stuff. That was like download from universe, from source, from God, like it was so, so clear and of course I cannot. I could not like just go around and help people with their money stuff when I had money stuff Because, yeah, I left my dad, I left Jordan, but it's like I packed my money oppression with me in the suitcase and it just followed me around life of why do I feel this way with money and how this is just a manifestation of way deeper stuff that I had to work through. And also, like now we talk about emotional trauma, we talk about all this stuff online. It's all like cool, right, but at the time you could not even relate to that.
Nadine Zumot:You know, I would go to my mentors and say it's my inner child and they're like what does that have to do with your budget? I'm like everything you know. So I had to like forge the way of like okay, there's, I'm pretty sure that I am scared of buying this one extra thing because I'm scared of abandonment and at the time there was no connection between these two. But I kept on being really, like you know, in mainstream. I kept. I was so stubborn, I went. I left the financial path, I went down the trauma healing path and I connected them all together of like.
Nadine Zumot:You don't necessarily have to have the most. You know economically traumatic childhood. You know a lot of people do come from bankruptcy, from poverty, and that is a very direct link with how we money as adults. But a lot of times people are like but I grew up in a nice household where there was a roof on my head and food on the table. Why am I like this with money? And it's that sneaky, indirectly related traumas that affect our self-worth, that affect our connection with the goodness that later on will have a trickle effect of how we relate to money.
Sherisse Alexander:So not even only that. You know, I'm definitely of that background, where it was, like you know, when we were growing up, I never knew when my parents had money challenges.
Nadine Zumot:They were so good, they were secretive.
Sherisse Alexander:They were really good at it, like we still ate good. We didn't watch for anything. It was only in later adult years when I realized cause my dad was at home and my mom was working. It was later, in later years, I was like, oh, my dad was like laid off.
Nadine Zumot:That's why?
Sherisse Alexander:But it was a great experience because my dad was like combing our hair and taking us to school, and doing lunches, so it was fun.
Sherisse Alexander:and as a child I never saw it and my parents never talked about it. They never were stressed about money, at least not visibly. And then I think the other thing is this is like silent little messages that we don't even, we're not even aware, that are, you know, subliminally, being actually imprinted on you from childhood, like you got to work hard for money, okay, but do you Right those kinds of things? So it's all those things right, so it doesn't have to be a trauma that's related, yeah yeah, really, it really doesn't.
Nadine Zumot:So it's just like. So it's a very, it's very personal right Like our relationship to money is very, very personal. Yet it is so tabooed to where we feel like we're alone. And sometimes, when I hold like healing circles, like money healing circles and all that stuff, one of the things like the biggest takeaway for people was like I'm not alone in this, like no, you're not. Actually, we all share the universal money wound Right, so Absolutely.
Sherisse Alexander:I just wanted to give, cause I don't. I think I did actually send you an email on how I found you, but it was like one of these things. Where so I have this book by Louise Hay and it's called heal your life and anytime I have?
Nadine Zumot:I feel like we all have to have that book. I have that book Absolutely.
Sherisse Alexander:It's like it's like my absolute, it's like my encyclopedia Okay, what is this about? And my sciatic was bothering me and I was, and it was talking about money and I was like money like I'm really not concerned about money at this point in time like what? And it was getting worse and where. And I think what had happened is I, I was thinking of investing and I remember saying to a friend I like I really want to be very intentional about this and I want to make sure that I'm wise about it. But and so I had interviewed a couple of financial planners and I'm like this doesn't feel right, like this feels very traditional, very cookie cutter, and so I started like weaving down. You know how this goes right. It's like this rabbit hole of trying to like find whatever it is that you're looking for.
Sherisse Alexander:And the entire time, my sciatic nerve is still bothering me and I literally I'd stumbled upon something that was talking about healing your money wounds. Now, it wasn't you, but it was some kind of seminar that somebody was putting on. And even when I landed on this person's webpage, I was like no, this just still doesn't feel right, like they're talking about healing money, but they still want to do it in a very traditional way, and so I thought you know what I'm going to do. I think I'm just going to Google it, I think I'm just going to go on audible and see if there is somebody who is talking about or there's a book or something. And you came up.
Sherisse Alexander:I listened to your first podcast and I was like, oh yeah, this is, this is. This is the path I'm supposed to go down. And the more that I dug into your own experience and what you were talking about, I knew that it was absolutely like I put it out there because I said send me somebody who can help me resonate with money in a way that a doesn't make me stay rooted in that scarcity mindset and really resonates with this spiritual path, because they to me, they are so linked together. They are so linked together especially when you are a healer or in an alternative healing modality, and your concern might be that you might not be able to make enough money from helping people and all this other kind of stuff. So how do we even remove that?
Nadine Zumot:So I just wanted to give the audience a little bit of context and color with how I found Nadine, and I find that with spirit it's often like that, like just a little crumb, and you just keep following until it's so fun when that happens, right when you actually trust yourself enough to follow these spiritual breadcrumbs, that's such a testament to your own growth as well and your own journey towards self-trust. Because I mean, you know, we're all told not to trust. No, it's not that we're told not to trust ourselves, we're told to trust something else. You know, like somebody else has the answers to your questions or the answers to your problems, but then you're like, no, I'm finding them through, just these breadcrumbs of like oh yeah that, oh yeah that, oh yeah that.
Sherisse Alexander:Oh yeah that, oh yeah that. Well, I think also, what it might also have something to do with is we live in an age of instant gratification, so it's like I want the answer and I want it right now, or at least that's how I am. I want the answer and I want it right now. I don't want to wait for it. I must be able to Google this and find the answer.
Sherisse Alexander:But spirit doesn't work like that. Spirit is like I'm going to give you a little clue and it's going to lead you to another one. And that's absolutely what the journey was like to find you, because when I had put that out there, it was maybe, it was definitely earlier this year, but it was just. It was just like one of these things where I was just like okay, I'm going to worry, I'm not worried, but I'm going to do some stuff with money, but I'm going to. I'm going to approach it in a different sense. And I didn't even know what that meant when I said it. It only started to make sense, as I, when the sciatic nerve came up. So it was almost like spirits saying okay, you said you were going to do this thing and you haven't done it, so we're going to remind you and here we are.
Sherisse Alexander:Yep, and then I think the other thing that has always been. So a little bit of background with me. I've worked with money for probably over 20 years easily, and one of the things that I always found that was really interesting is when I would run into women who had no idea about money, didn't have their own bank accounts, they didn't have their own credit cards and you know it doesn't have to be well, I'll say, any type of life event that happens and then them finding themselves in this scenario where it's like no clue whatsoever what to do, and so for me, that was really passionate about making sure that women could feel a sense of empowerment around spending their money, saving their money, investing their money. So tell me a little bit about your process and, because it's not traditional, so share how it's not traditional.
Nadine Zumot:Ain't nothing traditional about me or my process. So I would say like the most a way to describe my process is that the first pillar of it it's about being trauma informed. It's about taking a holistic look at your finances in terms of like it's. Money is just an aspect of your life. It's not your whole life. A lot of traditional financial advice looks at money as this, as this, like your financial life, but they don't look or they don't help us have a more compassionate look at why we do what we do with money, from like our childhood, from even our background, our ancestral background, our culture and all of this, all these, like you mentioned, subliminal messaging, all that conditioning that happens has a lot to do with how we money when we're adults, especially when we want to start charging for our services right, whether we're artists, whether we're healers, whether we're coaches, whatever it is, architects, lawyers, whatever it is like when you start wanting to charge for your art, when you want to charge for your life, like the physical manifestation of your life purpose, that becomes really a question of like am I worth it? Can I work it? Am I worth that kind of thing, missy Elliott kind of situation. So my approach is really to look at your life holistically and look at how, perhaps, if now you have any unhelpful, unhealthy money patterns, the first thing you need to understand is that how that makes sense, how these patterns, even though they seem like self-sabotage, they are in essence trying to protect you from something. Okay.
Nadine Zumot:So that is the first thing that we establish. The other thing we establish is like who are you? What do you value? What are your personal goals? Like? Is there anything in your life that you think you want because you were told you need to want this at this age or that at this particular like crossroads in your life? What is it that you actually want and what do you want your relationship with money to look like? Like, is it? Um, you know how do you want it to support you, as opposed to like, how do you want to mold your life in a service of money or in service of financial security? We look, we reverse engineer it as in like, what is your fuck yeah. Life and how do you want money to be your, like your bestie or your lover? That comes with you on this journey. So it's, it's, uh, it's very different in terms of like. Like I said it's, it is trauma informed. But also the most important thing is like there I call it the no bs approach no blame, no shame.
Sherisse Alexander:Yeah, yeah, because it's such an untraditional way of like. And what I love about where we are at this point in time is I don't think that there's anywhere that you can go on the internet, on any social media, that isn't talking about limiting beliefs and healing trauma and all this other kind of stuff. So do you find that there's still some resistance because it's like it's such a different way to come at money? So, for example, you talked about having these patterns that might attribute to something else.
Nadine Zumot:So give an example of one that's like super duper common that almost oh yeah, the most common one is overspending. So a lot of people come to me because they're either like just spending a lot of money on crap, really Like I don't know why my house is full of crap, and the other one is like I make such good money, but where are my savings? Why don't I have a retirement account? Like all that stuff Like that is the most common one, like all that stuff like that is the most common one. And a lot of times this is just a pattern that is a result of something completely different, that is just manifesting financially kind of thing. Yeah, so that's the example, so you can continue with your question. So we can circle back to the example yeah, no problem so with that.
Sherisse Alexander:then, um, there you go through this process and we identify OK, it's actually not about this thing, it's about this other thing that you know, Do you find that most people are just they quickly get it and it makes sense.
Sherisse Alexander:I'm trying to think of an example for myself so I can make it very relatable. So I will always say I'm not an overspender, like I don't even really like to shop, but I always feel like there's never enough money, like there's always, it's just like it just takes me so far. And then I realized it was like actually analyzing myself, and I'm like, oh, you're not a stuff buyer, like that's not what you do, you're a service buyer, you're announcing, so it's not like you come to my house and my closet is overflowing with clothes, or I've got like your digital library.
Sherisse Alexander:Yes, I actually would avoid bookstores because I I can spend hours in a bookstore and I can easily draw and I'm totally justified, I'm like but it's knowledge, right? So, um, you know, and when I think about that from like a healing standpoint and for me it's still obviously a work in progress because I don't even think that I've begun to get to the root of what the money issue is but I think that in a lot of ways my parents are immigrants. Um, I think that in a lot of ways it comes back from when you're, when you, your family, we'll say, your ancestral line is coming from a scarcity mindset.
Nadine Zumot:Absolutely. That's a tough one. There's a difference, hang on. There's a difference between having a scarcity mindset and having parents that actually were, that were raised or lived in actual scarcity. Yeah, you know, there's a very big difference between that. I don't have a scarcity mindset like when I was in jordan in the 80s. Scarcity was real, like, actually real, like we would have a shower. It sounds weird, but yeah, we would have a shower twice a week because there was no running water or no hot water, right. But now, like when I said I moved to Australia and Jordan's not like Jordan changed since then, but like moving to Australia, or even if I was still in Jordan or any country and my income was like 60K a year for a single girl, right, and I was. Yeah, that is a scarcity mindset.
Sherisse Alexander:That's different to when there's no actual scarcity, but I'm still bringing, like bringing my baggage along with me, kind of thing sure, and I think my point in that was not that they're necessarily living in a scarcity mindset but, if we talk about generational trauma and they might have grown up in actual poverty and never necessarily dealt with that. Then it just continues to.
Nadine Zumot:I mean, you know, the deal Perpetual, absolutely yeah.
Sherisse Alexander:So, um, I wanted to pivot a little bit and talk a little bit. There's a part in one of your podcasts where you like in the very beginning, when you're talking about, where you're asking people to really think about their intention with money and how how you spend it. So you know a traditional budget, you would look at it. So you know a traditional budget, you would look at it. You would take your, your needs and your wants and then your luxury items. But you don't approach it in that way. You talk a little bit or a lot more about, and not even just the spending of money, but how you like really looking at your life holistically and the intention behind that. Can you dive into that a little bit?
Nadine Zumot:Sure, so a lot of times when we like okay.
Nadine Zumot:So one of the principles that I really practice in my business is that we all have different parts or archetypes. We all have money archetypes and the money archetypes that I use I've learned actually or been trained from the Money Coaching Institute. So it's like we all have money archetypes and the money archetypes that I use I've learned actually or been trained from the Money Coaching Institute. So it's like we all have eight different money personalities and each of these money personalities will have, like, different requirements. So if we look at the inner child part, that part of you will want an emergency funding, will want a cushion. So how can we fulfill these desires of these parts through our money so that we can create an environment of financial security that can not only help you thrive in life but also help you feel that sense of security from inside? I'm not saying that money is safety, but in this day and age we really have to have some structure in our life to where our inner child, children, younger parts are not freaking out.
Sherisse Alexander:Yeah.
Nadine Zumot:Right. So whether it's an emergency fund, whether it is, and it depends on each person as well. A lot of times my clients would be like, oh, my level of security is like I need to have X amount of money in the bank account. Then we make sure that's one of their goals. But then as we progress and we start working on trauma, start working on creating an internal, secure attachment between their parts, that number in the bank account reduces Because of that emotional blanket.
Nadine Zumot:They need it less because they have more of a visceral sense of safety. That doesn't necessarily come from a dollar amount in the bank. Yeah, that's just one of the examples, but it really depends on the person. Yes, yeah, that's just one of the examples, but it really depends on the person. Yes, so yeah, the holistic word is like the bang on, like, it's like the blanket thing of like how can you create that for yourself so that you can then access the creative parts of your brain? Because if we're always living in that scarcity, we're always in survival mode. We're not able to access that prefrontal cortex because we're just in our reptilian or our limbic brains, right, we're always like fire or flight kind of thing. But once we start creating these structures financially, and of course, these structures don't necessarily need to come just from finances, but when people, by the time people come to me, that's what's necessary. That then will help them feel more safe. Access their prefrontal cortex, access their more like creative skills, and then life will start looking different for them. Hope that makes sense.
Sherisse Alexander:That makes sense. And then I'm curious and this might be a little bit of an obvious question, but I also think about the folks that I've come into contact with who suffer from money trauma in, we'll say, adult life, right. So I'm talking about like bankruptcy or consumer proposal and then dealing with the trauma around that right, because people that I've ever dealt with and that's like it's an extremely emotional thing to and there's all kinds of shame and self-worth and all this other kind of stuff that usually gets exacerbated in that process. So do you find that your clients have sometimes come on the other side of that, or they're before that, or it's kind of a mix and it's a?
Nadine Zumot:mix usually. Yeah, a lot of times people would come to me you know I have I have a group of they're not like a group together but like I did have a bunch of people that came to me you know I have a group of they're not like a group together but like I did have a bunch of people that came to me last year randomly that have had money trauma from past spouses, like past partners that became very financially abusive and we do deal with that. But sometimes when we dig in a little bit further we kind of see how this has been a pattern for them that you know kind of exasperated by that partner kind of thing. So yes, there's a lot of times that we people do get inflicted by financial trauma in their adulthood and there's a lot of guilt and shame and anxiety that we deal with like these layers are.
Nadine Zumot:So like I was talking the other day of how I had a client one time all we did was work with shame and all of a sudden her financial life changed. She didn't, she did not like change her income a lot. It's just that layer of shame that came from the trauma of, like you know she really was, took the up like the short side of the stick for a financial transaction that went, you know, belly up and we were dealing with the shame and then things started getting better. So, yeah, sometimes we don't even mention money in our, in our sessions and all of a sudden I paid 60 grand in debt and credit card debt Like whoa. There you go.
Sherisse Alexander:I was just going to say like that's absolutely nuts. So it's like not necessarily an intended side effect, like you're dealing with one thing that seems completely unrelated but somehow removes the block to actually address whatever blocks there are around. Really, and if you think about what money is, it's the receipt of abundance, right, any type of receiving, and ah, it's just. And I and the reason why it was important for me to talk about this is because it's it seems at this point actually, maybe it's not even at this point, maybe it's all the time um, people, and because you know I'm in Nigeria at this time, I am surrounded by people day in, day out that are talking about lack, and that is not to take away from the fact that I'm in a developing environment and that there is legitimately poverty and lack.
Sherisse Alexander:And one of the things that you know I speak with friends and and guidance people around is like how do I not get roped into the environment that is surrounding me but, at the same time, be it's like this challenge that I have for it, because it's like you're faced with this poverty every single day and, at the same time, I want to be very much rooted in humility and being humble and gratitude, but at the same time, at the same time also wanting to encourage people that these things are just their blocks.
Sherisse Alexander:They're things that we need to heal and, realistically speaking, if you're not there, you're not there. It's not a conversation you can necessarily have. But this is my struggle in this particular environment, because poverty is a very real thing every single day and it's a tough one to navigate through, because, if you let me have my way, I would probably literally hand out money to everybody everywhere. In terms of healing the money trauma, there's the obvious things like overspending or perhaps hoarding or being very tight fisted with money, but are there things that might be obvious to you in terms of a pattern or a cue that somebody else might not even recognize in their self as being an indicator of, maybe, a toxic relationship with money or having a money block?
Nadine Zumot:Yeah, so there is one. So first, before I'm just going to like circle to what you were saying earlier, is that just be mindful of who is lecturing you about abundance not you, but like to the audience out there, because a lot of times you know, people might not come from the same background as you, but then they're like on their soapbox telling you about abundance and you're like, excuse me, excuse me, ma'am, you don't really understand where I come from. So just being mindful with like who are you listening to and what their background is, Because we all come from different backgrounds. I'm not saying somebody's bad or good, it's just that I would rather work with someone that understands where I'm coming from, rather than someone that's lecturing me about money trauma, that has never encountered money trauma or never even witnessed poverty or never experienced it or whatever that. So that's real, this stuff is real. Um, and the thing of like wanting to hand money as long as you're well nourished, why not, right? Why?
Sherisse Alexander:not. There's so many different thoughts on that of course there's. I was speaking with this friend and she was talking about she's. She was absolutely trying to build community around, like supporting the community and so on and so forth, and and everybody was getting really excited and wanting to do exactly what I just said, like handing out money and so on and so forth. She was like no, we have to remember, it was the whole. Do you give somebody fish or do you teach them?
Sherisse Alexander:Of course, and that's where she was coming from.
Sherisse Alexander:She's like there's nothing wrong with wanting to give, but at the same time, you can really exacerbate the problem if we don't really give people the tools and the resources to pull themselves up out of these types of situations. And again, it's supremely easy to say when you're not steeped in it.
Nadine Zumot:So I'm trying to be mindful of it because at the end of the day, like I said, the poverty is extremely real in this environment and yeah, when we have extra money right, like when we come from, we've established ourselves to where our basic needs are met even more and we're in a good place. What actually that we just? We don't just have extra money, we also have extra time, extra resources. So when I say, like, why not? It doesn't mean that stand in the street and start giving away money. It can look like volunteering your time to create systems to where people, where you're teaching people how to fish essentially because when I said that, I was like, oh yeah, there's a fish thing. So like, instead of like handing out money, which exactly? We can exacerbate the problem.
Nadine Zumot:But when you have that luxury of having extra, it means that you might have extra time to dedicate, to maybe teach or maybe create a school or create job opportunities where, like you know, more equitable kind of like a work environment for women, whatever it is that you're passionate about. That's when we start using money in more philanthropic kind of ways. Is that how you say it Of like wanting to? You know, it's not just about elevating yourself, because, regardless of whether you're a coach or an actual, like a Reiki healer or whatever it is, you are a healer. When you want to elevate others. You are. Your healing journey as a healer begins when you want to heal yourself, when you want to elevate yourself, because then that money, money in the hands of good healers means elevating community, and it doesn't necessarily mean standing in the middle of like times, like town square and like throwing dollars at people right yeah, it's more about like creating a sustainable environment where you're teaching people or you're like creating, like that.
Nadine Zumot:That is that a generative way of of making money resourceful exactly right to answer your other question, your um.
Nadine Zumot:You know. The first question is like what are some uh kind of indirect or sneaky money blocks that I see? One of them really is like financial ambivalence, where we're either very obsessed with money or I don't want to look at it Right Like, or like this high, this high horse kind of thing of like money is not important, it is, you know, it is kind of thing. So I get a lot of people that are like I don't understand why my business isn't working. Well, I'm not a very big. I'm not very big on money and I'm like okay, what do you mean? Do you know how much money is coming in? Do you know how much money is coming out? Do you have a system? Do you have a system for later on? No, I don't think of the future. So that financial ambivalence is actually a money block.
Nadine Zumot:The other one you mentioned it, but I really want to say it again. Remember when I was saying like I don't spend money, I'm so good at it. That is a money block because money is circular. Money is. It needs to circulate, otherwise it'll just stagnate. It's not saying you got to spend it, I'm just saying that it's there for a reason Money is there to help you grow and others grow as well, so hoarding money is a very big money block. The other one is, like we've talked about the scarcity mindset, of course, the overspending. That's the most obvious one. I would say, like 95% of my clients are overspenders and only five percent are like me.
Nadine Zumot:You know the cute money hoarders I'm so good at money right, like that was me, like I don't spend it right, like no, actually I'm scared of it. I'm scared of spending it um. The other one is the um, sorry, I'm looking at my, like my board here. My god, I don't know why I'm looking at it.
Nadine Zumot:something told me to looking at my board here. I'm like I don't know why I'm looking at it. Something told me to look at my board and also there are, like, the glorified hard worker. So yeah, I know it is a juicy one, it's a sneaky one as well A lot of times, especially when we start working for ourselves. I love my business. My business is my hobby. I'm obsessed with it. Oh, my God, I stopped doing everything because I just want to do things for my clients. No, what you're doing is that you're blocking money.
Nadine Zumot:That is like that martyr archetype. That is like the overspending, not overspending, overgiving. I call it like the highway to burnout kind of healer. You know, when we go over in our session, in our client sessions, every time on the expense of you, of course. If your client is triggered and it's time, you're not going to be like, okay, bye, it's time.
Nadine Zumot:When your clients like just crying, of course you go over, you're there to care for them. When your client's like just crying, of course you go over, you're there to care for them. But if you're doing it from a place of like, love me, I'm worthy, you know, like here, take everything. Oh, do you want a discount, oh, you can't pay, it's okay, like I'll give you a payment plan where you're like you can't put food on the table or pay rent because of the loose payment plans that you're giving your clients.
Nadine Zumot:That overgiving, that like people pleasing, that is a very big blocker for money, especially for people who are healers. So these are like the four main ones that I'm developing a workshop on them and how to like start working on releasing these money blocks without like needing one-on-one support, because I know a lot of people don't want to start with that or they can't or whatever it is. But I'm creating a trauma-informed kind of system to you know, identify your blocks and then work on releasing them. Stay tuned for that. But these are the four main things that I see that are really like oh wow, our society really glorifies overdoing and overgiving, but on whose expense?
Sherisse Alexander:Yeah, that is, you know, the reason why I said that's a juicy one. It's because you're so right, like most entrepreneurs are, just like think, believe, own embody, that I need to work 18 hours a day and I'm just giving, giving, giving all day long. Um, and I never thought of that one right.
Sherisse Alexander:I never thought of it from you know that perspective that you just gave, and then the other pieces of that that you talked about, which is like over discounting, and I remember at like one point in my career I don't actually think I ever had that problem Like if I had a client, so on specific types of transactions I could charge my own fee, I could set the fee and I could make it whatever.
Sherisse Alexander:I wanted.
Sherisse Alexander:Now, I was always reasonable and I never even flinched. I would just say this is what my fee is, and I think that there was just this certain confidence that came with it, where I was like this is what my fee is. I want to like. I get your situation and it's usually not a great one, but at the same, time.
Sherisse Alexander:I still have people in this chain that I need to pay it forward to so that I never and I remember when I would be mentoring other brokers I would say like never, feel shame about charging people for your services you are giving them your time, your energy, your effort, your, your amazingness, that creating whatever it is that you're creating for them, and so do not feel bad about charging people for money.
Sherisse Alexander:So I bet, um, if you're working with a lot of healers cause this comes up with healers often which is and it's not necessarily that healers don't think that they should charge for their services, but other people are telling them that if you're gifted or if you're spiritual, or if you're doing it to help people, that you shouldn't charge for your services or you shouldn't charge so much. I don't know what the going rate is for some of these things, but I imagine that you see a lot of that where people are like having this inside tussle between charging for services.
Nadine Zumot:Yeah, If you are going to dedicate your life to helping others and if you are dedicated to your craft, obviously you're going to need you know it's not like you're going to need more training, it's more like you're going to be curious about new modalities, and ongoing training is necessary. Who's going to pay for your rent and your mortgage and all that stuff if you're going to dedicate your whole life to healing others?
Sherisse Alexander:I'm always curious where the idea comes from. With general and I'm speaking very generally where some folks might just be like, oh that.
Nadine Zumot:You got to do it for free.
Sherisse Alexander:Yeah, but you got to do it for free because you're in a healing modality. I mean maybe Jesus, I don't know. Okay, fair Mother.
Nadine Zumot:Teresa, I don't know, At a time in life where money wasn't necessary to survive. Yeah, that's true, but the reality shifted right. If I'm going to sit around and help people, help people all day long, that is gonna take away time for me of like doing money, generating things to keep a roof, a roof over our head, and like money and not money, sorry, water in in the in the bathroom and food on the table kind of thing. So, yeah, I mean, it's your skill, it's your craft. Why would you flinch when somebody offers you a piece of like canvas with a bunch of colorful oil on it and tell you that's 20 grand or 200 grand? You'll be like, wow, it's amazing. You know it's a piece of art.
Nadine Zumot:So why is your healing not an art? Why is your coaching not an art? Why is your programs not an art? Why is your coaching not an art? Why is your programs not an art? It's the same Absolutely. And you spend time, energy and experience and training putting it out there and and and you are shaving off years of somebody's like healing journey. When somebody works with me, they say oh my God, I've been in therapy for 10 years. I've gained so much more in one session than the 10 years of therapy.
Sherisse Alexander:Because it's effective and it's efficient and we're actually getting to the root of the issue. We're not just circling the drain on it, right, but there's just been so much evolution, like I said recently or lately I think, just in the entire healing, and when I say healing I mean like alternative modality healing healing arts healing arts, yes, alternative healing, and I think we're just starting to realize or scratch the surface of.
Sherisse Alexander:You know really all of the, the trauma that's and its impact, not even just in terms of money, but you know all the different things mental health, emotional health, physical health, all of it. And and how rooted those wounds are. I was saying to somebody recently. I said you know, your, the majority of our programming is already imprinted by the time we're five or six years old, like all these limiting beliefs. And I remember my mom used to say to me when my kids were young she's like you've only got five years with them. She's like, so you better make them count.
Sherisse Alexander:And I and I, you know, I'm so glad that I listened because it was one of those things where it was like and not to say that you only have five years with your kids, but those first five, six years before they go off Pretty, only have five years with your kids, but those first five, six years before they go off, pretty formative. They're extremely formative, right, and even when we think my own self on my own journey, I know a good majority of anything that I've had to work through comes from those young years in ways that you don't even think about.
Sherisse Alexander:You don't even think about it, and for so many years I'd be like, oh, nothing happened, it's totally fine, I don't even remember.
Nadine Zumot:And you're like, yeah, your nervous system remembers. Your nervous system remembers, your subconscious remembers, because, yeah, you're so right, these formative years are so important. But I'm going to let you finish your sentence.
Sherisse Alexander:Oh, it's listen with me. It's just like I was. Our household was always like conversation is meant to go back and forth and we would cut each other off, got it.
Sherisse Alexander:That's like my household as well.
Nadine Zumot:I want to just like since we're like in an open conversation, I agree Want to circle back to a question that you asked about. Like you know, money trauma that happens in adulthood versus in childhood. I want to talk about a pattern that I see a lot with my clients. It is trauma that happens from the coaching world or from the manifestation world. I have a lot of people that have money issues because of that.
Sherisse Alexander:Really Okay, tell me more. This one I've not ever heard, so this one I know so.
Nadine Zumot:I I will be talking more about this in depth on my podcast, but a lot of people actually have this. You know, you start on your business right and of course, there's the traditional financial path, but then there's a manifestation spiritual path, which is beautiful, but the way it's been glorified and taught online these days is that it is so. It makes us compare and it makes us impatient and it makes us feel like failures if our business doesn't take off straight away and it can exacerbate spending. Oh my God, I've been in business for a year and it hasn't taken off. I don't have 10K fucking days or whatever it is. Ah, but that coach has the solution.
Nadine Zumot:So we end up like guru shopping and all of a sudden we're promised that, that that modality, that formula is gonna be like spot on for me. I'm gonna put it on my credit card just this one last time. And all of a sudden people come to me with 60, 70, 80 grand of credit card debt because of that. But that's not the worst bit. The worst bit is how they feel shit about themselves and then they doubt themselves and they doubt their purpose. They doubt the very mission that they were so fucking passionate about and that just creates this downward spiral in their lives to where they're no longer present for their spouse, they're no longer present for themselves. They have a disconnection to their bodies because they are in such deep self-doubt because of the unrealistic expectations that is set by the coaching and this personal development industry. Yes, and I deal with the aftermath of that all the time.
Sherisse Alexander:Yeah. So how would you then and you're right on another podcast, a friend of mine get into talking about manifestation, and it was a great conversation. But you're right because I think you know when you first come into this catchphrase now, manifest it. I think people believe. Because what did I say to you at the beginning of this? I put it out there. Now think about what I said. I put it out there and then there were these cues that came up that reminded me that I needed to go down this path. But it was a thought with actual action until I brought the experience into my mind.
Nadine Zumot:Pause, pause. You had a thought, but you weren't going at it like a dog with a bone. No, you received it. You allowed it to come because it wasn't something that is tied to your survival. Yeah, your electric bill didn't depend on that. But when you start relating oh my God, manifestation with like actual survival, like real shit, yes, that is very different. Very different. Absolutely, manifestation is real, of course it's real.
Sherisse Alexander:It's co-creation, yes, but when you couple it with survival, with, like, that actual fear of making it, of being evicted or not evicted from your house, of your children's school, of, like I don't know, shoes, yeah, clothes essentials, food essentials, yeah, that's when it starts getting really weird you know, I, for the better part of my adult working life, I remember I said I worked in money, um, and I remember being a broker and it was always commission-based, and I would do this neat experiment with myself because it would be like, and I would set goals the very traditional myself.
Sherisse Alexander:Because it would be like, and I would set goals the very traditional way. I'd be like, okay, I want to make this much money so, and I'd work it backwards and I need to do this many deals, I'm going to talk to this many people and so on and so forth. And I always found that every time and you know, the energy of moving into scarcity right, there's not an you can feel it totally embody every part of you. And I was saying again on another episode where there was this one month where I was like in this total scarcity energy and every single deal I touched that month, every single one of them fell apart. And I remember the mindset going into that because I was like I'm, I need more money and I don't see any more money, so I'm just going to keep all these deals to myself because I was working with someone else, it wasn't it wasn't nefarious, it was a.
Nadine Zumot:it was a.
Sherisse Alexander:it was an agreement we had, but it was that anything I worked on by myself, I could keep. Anything she touched we would split. And I remember feeling like, oh, I need to make more money this month. I'm going to keep all these deals to myself and every single one of them fell apart. The months when I did amazing was when I just focused on taking really good care of my clients. The money literally rained from the sky. I was like gosh that is so true for you.
Nadine Zumot:Yeah, that is so true with me and my clients as well. Like when you're vibing with life, when you're not like needing, when you're not like what is in it for me, that is when the universe sends you people, that's when you are a safe person. You know, because it's transactional, if I were to go and work with someone that is looking at me like what's in it for me, that's not safe for me.
Sherisse Alexander:It's not only that you can feel that. You can totally feel that, and people do not like that feeling of desperation is ick, that's the only word that can come to mind.
Nadine Zumot:Yeah.
Sherisse Alexander:I never thought about this other one that you were talking about. So I imagine then, for the industry as a whole, like not even just okay, now these folks come to me but the industry as a whole. I mean, it's now another thing, because it's like the catchphrase, like I said, manifestation, and now you got a whole bunch of people running around manifesting, away, manifesting credit card debt yep exactly so. So then, what would you say to folks in terms of like I mean, how do we navigate that? You?
Nadine Zumot:highlighted it, so how do you now?
Sherisse Alexander:navigate it.
Nadine Zumot:Oof got another couple of hours. I feel like the first thing is knowing that you've got the power Right thing is knowing that you've got the power right. Like a lot of times, what happens after an episode like this not this like actual episode, but an actual episode of like manifesting, trying to manifest and it not working I feel like you start thinking am I powerless?
Sherisse Alexander:you're not yeah.
Nadine Zumot:So that's the first thing is catching yourself of where you're giving your power away, where you're giving away your power to like the manifestation gods're leading from your heart and your soul. You're literally leading from your heart and your soul. If your heart and your soul don't feel on board, if they feel malnourished, that's what you're going to be leading from. So go in and take care of yourself, because it is energetic. It really is.
Nadine Zumot:I mean, I'm a science kind of stream girl, like I've got my undergrad and postgrad in nutrition and science and like da, da, da, da, and there is something in my brain that says how I don't know how to explain it it's just energetic when you're vibing with life, when you're focusing on how can I help more people versus what's in it for me. You're not bad for asking what's in it for me because you are in survival. When we are in survival mode, it doesn't matter how well-intentioned you are. Your subconscious is like bitch, I'm gonna die, I gotta eat. It doesn't matter how like oh, but I'm not like that you are because your, your survival is threatened yes, absolutely, and I and I mean we're animals by nature, we're animals exactly.
Nadine Zumot:It's okay to want to survive, it's fine. It doesn't matter what you think You're manifesting from your subconscious. Yes, absolutely, if you don't feel safe there. So I would say, make yourself safe. You deserve to create financial security for yourself, yeah, so take care of that. Take care of the basics and make sure that you're not giving your power away. Reclaim your power back. These are the two basic things that I would tell anyone. If I'm not, if I'm not privy to what actually happened to their past and all this like generic kind of like recommendation is take your power back yeah and make sure that your basic needs are met, because you cannot lead from that hunger.
Nadine Zumot:I I heard something on a movie once that said don't ever do anything out of hunger, do not even eat from hunger.
Sherisse Alexander:Wow, I know it was really like, oh shit, yeah, that's true, but I think they were referring to like emotional hunger and I think and I was going to say that like it's almost the exact same idea is like don't ever make any decisions from any extreme place be it, don't make a decision while hungry. Yeah, Don't make a decision while hungry. I mean Don't make a decision while hungry, yeah don't make a decision while hungry.
Nadine Zumot:I mean I choose not to Like when you're in emotional deficit, kind of thing.
Sherisse Alexander:Yes, absolutely, because you're not making a decision with. You're in an extreme. That's what I'm trying to say. You're in an extreme place, and so the decision-making is not necessarily.
Nadine Zumot:In an extreme place, exactly, exactly. So, like what I was saying earlier about the money archetypes that I work with. Like certain things we all get triggered right. Like when a situation triggers a younger part and that takes the steering wheel. You don't make decisions from your current day self, your higher self. Yeah, in client sessions we discover that so-and-so client's financial advisor is her five-year-old right. Like she's been making these financial decisions from a five-year-old part as opposed to like the 43-year-old part.
Sherisse Alexander:That's a great actual visual that I just got from that, because you talked about the inner child healing. I'm like oh my gosh, I never thought about it Like if you had some inner child wound. And it's like oh my gosh, I never thought about it Like if you had some inner child wound and it's like it's all about inner child healing.
Nadine Zumot:Yeah, I didn't actually like explicitly say it, but it is inner child healing, yeah.
Sherisse Alexander:Yeah, In a way Get five year old your bank account and say go make some decisions.
Nadine Zumot:Exactly Like a lot of times, when we're like in the over giver, like the the highway to burnout healer kind of mentality, there is a part of you that's like the people pleasing of, like, hey, do you want to love me? Okay, I'm gonna give you an extra hour for free, whereas, like your children are hungry, mommy, I want to eat you like. No, I'm over giving here, it's okay, you know. And then you go and take care of these and then, all of a sudden, it's midnight and you're tired and you haven't taken care of yourself in five years.
Sherisse Alexander:Yes, absolutely Sounds like a lot of people I know, yeah. So, yeah, that, like I said that, that one I never even thought of. So that that's a great one. Tell me a little bit more. I think it's the Institute with the actual formalized coaching program that like takes people.
Nadine Zumot:I think it's like a six month program or six month journey oh, my, my, my one, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, so I do that once a year, so it's currently closed. Um, that will open up again next year in July, I believe. Yeah, uh, but currently it's more like I'm taking people through my process on a in a one-on-one kind of setting at the moment.
Sherisse Alexander:So yeah, Generally speaking, so do you have. You have one intake a year.
Nadine Zumot:Is that?
Sherisse Alexander:what you said.
Nadine Zumot:Yes, so it depends on the energy. I know that sounds really wanky, but like sometimes I just get more interest in it and I open it, yeah, and so it's like last year my intention was to do it only in July and then I had seven people reach out in November and I'm like, okay, I'll do an intake in January. So that is.
Sherisse Alexander:That is like my six month program, but usually I also like to do like three month programs here and there, but my main like ongoing thing is my one-on-one okay yeah, I stumbled across it and I was just like, oh my gosh, this is just such a fantastic because I, you know, when people say things like you, you know you've got to heal your money blocks and I don't think, if you are new to this journey that we're talking about, you can't even begin to understand the many layers of peeling back on the onion and the healing that goes on at every step of the way. So when somebody recently had said to me like oh, you've got so many blocks around money and it was almost around as soon as they said you've got so many blocks around money is when this whole sciatica thing started popping up.
Sherisse Alexander:Got it yeah yeah, yeah.
Sherisse Alexander:When I stumbled across your program I was just like this is such a fantastic way to approach money in a non-traditional way and really getting to the root of any of these healing issues that need to be addressed. And frankly, I've been saying for easily decades now there needs to be more literacy around money in the youth so that we can actually begin this process long before it becomes something else. So it's true Very very true.
Nadine Zumot:So, yeah, I mean that, um, that six month program is big, it's pretty robust. Um, it's, it's a big. You know time investment as well, like it's a beautiful program but, um, yeah, it's just my, it's my baby kind of thing. I love it. Well, I've never seen anything like it, not like, honestly, it was the first thing that I've ever seen that was like that.
Sherisse Alexander:So it was like I said. There's definitely traditional ways to approach money, but this was was very different from what I found online.
Nadine Zumot:Yeah, oh, thanks for that.
Sherisse Alexander:I am so beyond thrilled that you joined me here today to share about your journey, and not only that, but just even shed some light, because for me, this, the level of what you're talking about, is so new to me, and so I imagine that it is new to a lot of people, because I don't even think that many people equate money challenges in all the myriad of ways that you talked about to any type of healing, and so thank you so much for sharing and highlighting that and I hope that the listeners today got value out of that and if they have any questions, I will send them your way to your Instagram, your website, all of it, your podcast, so that they can learn more about how to unfuck themselves from money.
Nadine Zumot:That's a good way of putting it. Thank you so much for having me. This was so fun. I loved your questions and you know sometimes I go on podcast interviews and I'm like, oh, wow, I just deepened my relationship with my own business. So this was one of them. So thank you, thank you.
Sherisse Alexander:I love that. I love that. I want to be as open and conversational with it as possible because, like you said, money is one of those things that's taboo. We should talk about it more, not less. Because, like you said, money is one of those things that's taboo. We should talk about it more, not less. And very early in my creation of the podcast, I'm like somewhere in here.
Sherisse Alexander:I got to talk about money.
Sherisse Alexander:I don't know where, but I got to talk about it and I'm so glad that the universe guided me to you, because it was exactly what I was looking for, and I didn't even know it at the time. So, thank you, thank you, thanks. Universe time, so thank you, thank you.
Sherisse Alexander:Thank you so much for joining myself and Nadine today as we talked about healing energy blocks around money and how you can approach that in perhaps a little bit of a different way. So if you find yourself in a place in space where you are having money challenges, perhaps the question is how do I approach this differently so I can allow money to flow in more of an energetic fashion? So money is energy. It comes in, it goes out, and how do we, how do we do that in a way that can really help bring about abundance and fulfillment as it pertains to money? So if you enjoyed the episode today, please feel free to share that con, that feedback, and if you continue to enjoy the feed or the content that I'm bringing you on a bi-weekly basis, please continue to follow and download episodes from Apple Podcasts or Spotify. So until next time, please take care of yourselves. Go now. You Thank you.